Do I need to go back to school? The thought makes me want to vomit in my clogs. The thought of adding one more thing into our schedule, the thought of adding school loans to our future, the thought of having to write papers again…
Don’t get me wrong, I enjoy school. I love learning. I love reading. I love growing as a person. But it’s the process to get there that scares me.
The plan right now is to plant a church in Downtown Vancouver in 2009/2010. I would be the lead pastor. And I say that to say this:
Is it foolish of me to plan on being the leader of a church without more schooling? I mean, I know God can do anything. I know that plenty of people have/will lead churches with no formal training. But many of those people get to cut their teeth by leading youth groups for five years or so (I realize that youth ministry is not a lesser ministry, but there is a definite difference between being a youth leader and a a lead pastor. The youth leader can say stupid things or do stupid things and people just laugh. If the lead pastor says something stupid it’s liable that it will become law because what the lead minister says is directly from God!) My fear is that I do my future church an injustice by not pursuing more training now. I fear thinking too highly of myself, I don’t really need more school. I fear being ignorant, I can read books instead of going back to school. I fear making a poor choice.
I don’t think that learning more in school will take the fear associated with being a lead church planter away. I kind of always hope that I am full of fear at the idea of being the leader of God’s church (not that overcoming type of fear, but the fear that is necessary to develop and nurture courage, for faith, and for reliance upon God rather than my own abilities).
More than anything I’m tired of not being able to spend more time with people, doing ministry, and serving at/for/with Renovatus. Now that there is hope coming that I may soon be able to work full time with Renovatus the idea of adding something else that will take away from that time makes me sick…but then again…
…then again, maybe I’m just being ignorant because of my youth…or maybe I’m being arrogant because of my lack of experience…or maybe…
Musings From The Ground Up
Initiating a new grassroots movement in downtown Vancouver
I think I would wait- obviously you are anyway, I know this is not something you are going to do tomorrow, but I think you should wait until all those letters have been sent out and you have ALL the support you need to be working full time with Renovatus. (or Reno as I like to call it) Becasue at that point, you hopefuly won't be living in poverty anymore and you will have ALL your time to be with your family and reaching out to others. I bet once you are doing ministry full time, your life will feel alot less crazy psycho than it is right now…well, it will be still be crazy but you will be doing what you love and are called to do and not being pulled in a million different directions. Anyway, I think you will have a new sense of peace and may have more energy and would be able to focus on more schooling. (which all that to say, I think it would be wise to get more formal education and knowledge…once your life has slowed down and you are where you need to be)
I agree 100% with what eric & tara said, and I would add this: life never slows down, ever. Lead from the bottom up. Desire the training to be the kind of leader that you want to be, don't just tolerate it, demand it from yourself. If that includes schooling, don't hesitate, and don't feel bad in any way for the time away from people; you are loving them by preparing yourself to be a leader does not suck. And if your babies don't go to sleep in the backseat of your car every night then you don't live in poverty. And don't get more school loans. Here endeth the lesson.
i think that by your working with someone who is so accessable and has a little bit of experience (Kdub), that could probably give you what you need. You're a smart guy… you don't i to go to school, but I understand your need to (ha… see what I did there) but… WIGAH is that i don't think you are the sort of person who needs school to learn. If you want to know something, you will go and find it, you know? Its possible that going into a lead ministering postion "blind" could be really great. Really stressful, but really great. It could keep your eyes open to things especially in the neighborhood that you'll be in (prospectively). Dad could help with the other stuff… you know… the techincals.Originally, I was going to say you should probably wait until India is walking (next week)… ok. not walking, but not an infant… for your wife's sake. But then, she's older and Jones is in school. then India is in school and ugh…. yeah. Life never slows down. That's a good way to be 65 and pist that you never got your masters. that's what that is.how long would it take you? how long COULD you take (maybe talk to Ty about this 😉 )? I'm really talking out of my ace right now…. I don't know what is involved in a bible masters…. maybe there ARE things you need. Maybe not. I don't like school, so you can just ignore me.i'm buying that machine today so you can come over for Starbucks beverages when you want… I'll even wear my apron.like a play date.
Grad school is really hard – not so much in the learning but in the work. It takes ALOT of time and energy. You have to read things you may not want to read and write papers that you DON'T want to write. It all is very valuable but tiresome. Not that I know what the seminary program is like, but I imagine there are similarites between all programs. God be with you as you make this big decision.
Apart from my personal opinions, I really do not sense God's CALLING you to this form of education right now. It just doesn't seem to fit anywhere.Just be obedient and do what it is that you are SUPPOSED to do.
I know this is hind sight but when Ben was working on his masters part-time it wasn't so hard (for our family). He had his full time job in ministry and class one day a week. I remember him working on school work and papers but he did it before we woke up or after we went to sleep most of the time. Maybe he could tell you more accurately how he felt during it. By the way, I hate school. I just don't mind if other people, like my husband, want to do it. He makes it look easy but I'd rather chew my finger off. My right pointer finger even. Ooo- or my thumb! That's serious! I, myself am actually feeling the need to be more prepared, as a preacher's wife now, but not school-type preparedness. No. Something else.
There are two schools of thought here (ha):1) You can't learn everything in school. From someone who didn't even continue schooling after HS, I've learned some pretty amazing things and edged my way into some jobs that usually require formal education. There is something to be said for on-the-job training, so to speak. Life experience has helped me relate to some people better than a classroom could have.2) The boy scout motto: Always Be Prepaired. While school can't teach EVERYTHING, it does prep you for "real life" and allow you to maximize your opportunity for learning through experience. Even though I've got a lot of life experience (sometimes more than someone my age should have) I still have a pretty narrow pool of info to draw from in some cases. Learning other point of views in the classroom can make you a more rounded thinker.One of the things I love about Reno is the "realness" of the Cast of Characters. I don't feel like I'm getting regurgitated book learnin' but honest, true experiences that I'm allowed to take as a whole or tweak to fit me personally.I don't need to tell you to keep praying about what God wants you to do here, but remember that you are surrounded with a lot of people who are transitioning (or becoming) in Big Life Ways – we would all do well to remember that God is taking care of us and putting us where we need to be.
hahaha…..I saw "Reno" and then "Cast of Characters" and said, quite litterally out loud in my head:Really Chris? How is it that you're going to compare Ryan going back to school to Reno: 911.Seriously.I mean, I think you could do it, but….Seriously, Chris. Seriously.then I realized that you meant Renovatus.oops.my bad.
Well said Chris. And if you discover you are being called at some point to get more school – it seems like the 1 class a week version is alot less stressful. But seriously, i loved Chris' last paragraph.Marmme
OK, I will chime in as a seminary instructor who goes under bridges to share my faith in Jesus. First, the research on growing churches (if you want to lead a church that baptizes a lot of people and sees that kind of human transformation) suggests that they are led by people who have at least a Masters in Bible/Theology. If you are interested in leading a church that stays below 100 school is not an issue. Smaller churches have both graduate school ministers and non-graduate school ministers.Second, I tell my students that school developes you. If you enter school evangelistic and as a person who goes out, shares your faith, and has led people to Jesus–graduate school will help you. It provides you with training and resources to dig deep. While some have poo pooed Greek and Hebrew I find that even the street kids like to hear how a different translation of a verse, or the history and archaeology make the text and our discussion come to life.Third, if a person is not breaking out of their comfort zones graduate school can make you more introverted. Some are called by God to be scholars and school helps them along that way (we need scholars). Some think school will make them magically transform into outreach focused people–and it usually does not. It depends on where you are now in your walk with God.Fourth, the Emerging churches are training leaders from within. Yet, they are also developing schools within their churches and having seminarians and scholars teach the classes (Imago Dei in Portland is one example). I have many students who are middle aged who attend George Fox Seminary for further training. The trend tends to be graduate school in conjunction with ministry. I think that this not only is a good idea but it has been working.Finally, graduate school is an investment. It is a sacrifice now, and maybe requires a 2-3 year break from ministry, but in the long run it gives you a foundation to draw upon. I continually look back to our time in school and use all that I have learned. I see other ministers who, at my age, are out of options, dry, and stuck theologically in a rut.Jesus was God so he didn't need to go to school.Peter was a fisherman but he testifies that Paul was a great theologian. Yet Peter was effective.Paul went to school and was a dynamic force in the kingdom.Just my two cents worth.
I really appreciate everyones input. I actually was hesitant to post another blog because I wanted to see if more people had comments to offer.Jess and I have absolutely no idea what we're going to do at this point. But Tara you are right that everything hinges upon God's response this week through fund raising. If God wants me to still be working at Outback next year then the school issue has already been decided. If God sees fit to give us money to work full time (and lets not get ahead of ourselves here. By "full time" we're not talking about leaving the poverty level, just staying right where we are but doing different work. And, no, in reality we don't live in poverty. We've got so much crap that it's ridiculous to even suggest it. God gives us just what we need and even quite a bit of what we want.)…like I was saying, if God gives us money to work full time with Renovatus then we'll have to make some hard decisions. Until then…I'm eating free steak and ribs at the Outback.
great blog